Amendment

[BarryJive]

I'll go back to what I said earlier, this is completely a moral thing and the government has no right to tell me what my morals are.

[Percipere'Chan]

Originally posted by BarryJive:
Chan, the government... tells gay people that they are not allowed to make that decision.

[Super Nintendo]

Originally posted by fancymeghan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fancymeghan:
i start to hate republicans more and more every day.

.......not to be taken literally, you dumbass.</font>[/quote]Then what the hell is it?!?!
Just a cheap shot at republicans that you can take back if you are called out on it?
NEWSFLASH: Text does not display sarcasm!!!
So if you are going to be sarcastic, maybe you should say so.

[Percipere'Chan]

Originally posted by Percipere'Chan:
1) no union
2) social union
3) marriage
Using Pli's example, in which cases would the partner have legal right?

[Pliedes]

Originally posted by BarryJive:
I'll go back to what I said earlier, this is completely a moral thing and the government has no right to tell me what my morals are.

Then how can the government make a decision?

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally posted by BarryJive:
Too many people are ill-informed and all it takes is to pick up a newspaper.

The newspaper is too long, Barry!

[ February 26, 2004, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Blonde ]

[Percipere'Chan]

Originally posted by Percipere'Chan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Percipere'Chan:

1) no union
2) social union
3) marriage
Using Pli's example, in which cases would the partner have legal right?

[/QB]</font>[/quote]
In order to figure out what if anything needs to be changed (no matter the direction) I think it would be good to know how things are set up right now.

It seems that in states that allow 'gay marriages' that the rights in question would be given to the partner. I'm pretty sure that there are states out there that do have legal Social Unions and who's citizens also possess those rights. I think what BarryJive was saying earlier was that without a Union of some kind the family has rights but, the partner has no significance through the law from which to make any claims. So the government isn't really denying anything at that point. It instead hasn't seen reason to give them rights that no one else has (save, the family).

Thoughts?

[VOL]

Originally posted by BarryJive:
I'll go back to what I said earlier, this is completely a moral thing and the government has no right to tell me what my morals are.

If they protect you from hostile enemies than they should have some say. This isn't about morals, it's about American custom and tradition. Do I agree.. hell no. I don't think we should have gay marriages; however I do think that Bush should ask for an Amendment on the point of there will be a huge trickle down effect. Soon after this, if it's legalized, there will be swarms of people wanting to marry animals or their cousin or whatever sick things happen. The point is to keep things flowing as the have been for thousands of years. God did not put Adam and Steve on the earth, he put Adam and Eve; therefore men and women should be the only ones getting married.

And the government has no right to instruct you on your morals????? Well sorry Barry you have been living your life according to the government. It's all about sociological matters. Your morals probably include: not murdering people or not stealing, the government outlaws that because it's immoral. Don't you live by that. The government made those laws. So it seems we are all following someone else's moral code.

[Pliedes]

Originally posted by VOL:
This isn't about morals, it's about American custom and tradition.

I stopped reading your post after this dumbass statement. You do realize "american tradition" was to ensalve millions of black people, right?
Anyway, where do you think custom and tradition comes from anyway? Morals and belief structures are inevitably tied to any decision that people, whether government authorities or normal citizens, make. To think that it somewho doesn't play a part is ridiculous and stupid.

The whole "trickle down" theory is ridiculous.

Nobody is going to marry an animal. Under the current rules could I marry a female monkey? No, the monkey isnt human. Under the current rules can I marry my female cousin? No, we are related. Same-Sex marriages will not change any of these things.

[BarryJive]

VOL-Murdering and stealing adversly effects others where as gay marriage will not effect anyone but the people getting married. Murdering and stealing are outlawed because they are wrong. This is black and white with not much gray area. The gay marriage thing is all gray area and completely up to the individual to make up their mind whether it is right or wrong. My position is simply that in this case it be left up to the individual rather than the government in making a decision whether its right or wrong.

When making up ones mind about this little debacle one usually falls back on whatever ones religious beliefs might be, Bush's beliefs as he's stated directly state homosexual marriage is wrong, in that case his decision is being religiously motivated, now I don't know about you guys but I think without the separation of church and state we might as well be run by the Vatican. And while yes, they do protect us from hostile enemies but arent they inherently protecting the freedom in which America stands for? I personally think marrying whoever you want is a freedom we should have.

[Percipere'Chan]

I would just like to point out Vol's custom title.

[f3lix]

It's great everybody is outspoken on their opinions about this, but as for it becoming a constituational amendment, the odds are highly stacked against it. At least 34 states must agree to this, plus 2/3rds of Congress; the simple Republican majority won't take this one singlehandedly, which is why I doubt it will pass.

[Saint DH]

Originally posted by DJ FC:
The whole "trickle down" theory is ridiculous.

Nobody is going to marry an animal. Under the current rules could I marry a female monkey? No, the monkey isnt human. Under the current rules can I marry my female cousin? No, we are related. Same-Sex marriages will not change any of these things.

You are a fucking dumbass DJ FC. Every post you make my respect for you drops lower and lower. Of course you can't marry a female monkey now. Guess what? Under the current rules you can't marry another man either (in most states). If gay marriage is allowed then why shouldn't you be able to marry a female monkey? Are you not a good enough human? Why should you not have the right to marry the monkey that you love? They changed the rules for gays...why not monkey lovers?

[ February 26, 2004, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: Dirty Harry ]

[AcTivE]

All gays should be shot and killed. Everyone should go buy a gun, find at least three gays, and kill them.

...I'm waiting for it stabmasta

[Percipere'Chan]

Hey, wouldn't that help with our over-population problem too? Cool. That's like two birds with one stone. Neat.

[AcTivE]

Three, not two.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally posted by Dirty Harry:
Of course you can't marry a female monkey...now!!!

Post slightly modified to accentuate hilarity

Originally posted by Dirty Harry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ FC:
The whole "trickle down" theory is ridiculous.

Nobody is going to marry an animal. Under the current rules could I marry a female monkey? No, the monkey isnt human. Under the current rules can I marry my female cousin? No, we are related. Same-Sex marriages will not change any of these things.

You are a fucking dumbass DJ FC. Every post you make my respect for you drops lower and lower. Of course you can't marry a female monkey now. Guess what? Under the current rules you can't marry another man either (in most states). If gay marriage is allowed then why shouldn't you be able to marry a female monkey? Are you not a good enough human? Why should you not have the right to marry the monkey that you love? They changed the rules for gays...why not monkey lovers?</font>[/quote]Those were examples to show how outrageous this claim is. Theories of "moral downfalls" have been around for decades, and they are ALWAYS over-exaggerated. Legalizing gay marriage WILL NOT cause people to run rampant and participate in anarchy.

I don't give a shit how much respect you have for me, Dirty.

And suppose we came to a day where people genuinely fell in love with monkeys (this day will never come, but for the sake of argument, we'll say it does), then damnit let people marry monkeys, if they genuinely love them, and chose them as their domestic partner, more than just a pet, companion, or sex object, AND you can prove that the monkey deserves all the protection from the government that a spouse would recieve (we discussed tax benefits, ability to look out for, and speak for, the other partner, etc.), then the right thing to do would be to legalize Monkey-Marriage.
Doesn't that scenario sound a bit far-fetched? That's because it is. Legalizing gay marriage will not turn the world upside down, it will not have people fucking animals and relatives (at least not more than they do now).

[ February 26, 2004, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: DJ FC ]

[Mr. Blonde]

<font size="8">LOL</font>

[AcTivE]

Legalizing gay marriage will result in animals having sex with humans.

If you can not see that, then you are gay, and need to be murdered.

[Percipere'Chan]

*Reads DJ FC's post
*chokes on sprite
*wipes bubbly fizz from nostrils

*laughs again

[VOL]

Originally posted by Pliedes:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by VOL:
This isn't about morals, it's about American custom and tradition.

I stopped reading your post after this dumbass statement. You do realize "american tradition" was to ensalve millions of black people, right?
Anyway, where do you think custom and tradition comes from anyway? Morals and belief structures are inevitably tied to any decision that people, whether government authorities or normal citizens, make. To think that it somewho doesn't play a part is ridiculous and stupid.</font>[/quote]If you think that the only American tradition is enslaving black people than you are ignorant and uneducated. I went on in the post to state my point which is that Barry discussed morals. All of our morals and values in which we as Americans have come from others, so we have no real original morals within us at this moment. Pliedes, I know you and I can agree on something here, I am not intellectual very much, but I thought we saw something at the same level here.

[Percipere'Chan]

I just wanted to see if Dirty and any special thoughts on this movie...

[AcTivE]

http://www.rtccom.net

thanks, will help me learn a bit