Athiests CAN Go To Heaven V 2.0 - Page 2 - Nubblies.net Forums

BigDongedHoe · 12-16-2003, 01:50 AM

[quote]Originally posted by ProfessorNumber:

Quote:

I like to believe that there are several different ways of getting into heaven. If this makes me not-a-Christian in your eyes, then so be it. From a purely logical sense, it makes no sense for Heaven to be Christian-exclusive.

Look at that statement and it sums up everything that is wrong: Your making judgements from your perspective, it's almost as if saying "I am God." The Bible (the word of God, the truth, and the only credible source to back up what people believe in) clearly states how it is you get into heaven. If God tells me that the only way to get into heaven is to accept him into my heart and to accept the fact that he sent his son to die on the cross for all mortal's sins then that is damn well what I believe.

Maybe there are different ways into heaven however none of them are stated in the bible. That is where christianity sets itself apart, it is the only religion where there are no outside influences. It is also the only religion where you don't have to raise yourself up to a higher level. In Christianity God came to us and we accept Jesus as our savior. Every other religion has some other means of getting to God or you have to lift yourself up onto another level. There are even some catholics that believe if your Baptized you will be in heaven.

I understand where you guys are coming from because I to sat in your shoes and said the same thing "I do not understand where a all loving god would deem people to hell who aren't that bad of people." That is so far from the point though, people want to look at it this way "what can God do for me" rather than "what can I do for God." We are here on earth to glorify God not to see what he can do for us. The bible clearly states that we will receive a new body in heaven for eternity.

I don't see how people can come up with their own beliefs on there "way" to heaven when the bible (the word of God) clearly states the way to heaven.

ProfessorNumber · 12-16-2003, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pliedes:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ProfessorNumber:
I don't want to believe that, and I refuse to

Wow, that is quite a statement right there. That is about as antirational as you can get. Just because you don't believe in gravity, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Are you saying you want some sort of divine intervention before you'll believe?[/quote]Comparing gravity to religion is anti-rational, my friend. Gravity is logic at it's finest; we know it exists because we see it's effects everyday. Religion on the other hand is subjective in my opinion.

AcTivE · 12-16-2003, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Percipere'Chan:
The message you are portraying here and what Jesus actually taught have already heartily diverged ways.

As to:
Jn 14:6-JESUS SAITH UNTO HIM, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE: NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME.

You miss the point.

John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye Are Gods"?

John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Jesus Isn't Ever talking about himself in the way that you're convinced you're hearing it. You've completely missed his point. He's telling you that you have the potential to be just like him. You Are A God. You are a Part of God. Even the word "AM" has a completely different meaning than what you're taking it for. Am is a deep awareness in an overall pervading Existance of god everywhere. We Are All One. When Jesus is saying: John 10:7 "I am the door of the sheep" (for one small example) He's trying to communicate to the masses that there is a way of being that he is that you must also be in order to attain the benefit of his teachings.

I wasn't familiar with the verse, so I did a little research on it, I hope you don't mind [img]smile.gif[/img] . You may have to do some reading after hearing my reply.

...

This is in response to verses John 10:22-39

If Jesus wanted to avoid the charge of blasphemy by denying he was God , he could very easily have done so. But he did not. Rather, he showed (by quoting Psalm 82) that the claim to be God was not IN ITSELF blasphemous. His reply could be paraphrased, "It is not blasphemy to call someone 'god' if they deserve the title."

He then showed how he DID deserve the title, by describing himself as "the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world", "God's Son", and by saying "the Father is in me, and I in the Father".

1- Jesus is the radiance of God’s glory. 2- Jesus is the exact representation of God’s being. 3- Jesus is the only source who has made God completely and fully known to Man. 4- Only by knowing Jesus we can know God, fully and intimately. 5- Jesus has the exact same nature as God the Father.

...

Jesus is in me, because I asked him to come into my life. I'm not Jesus.

I believe you took the verses out of context.

Percipere'Chan · 12-16-2003, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigDongedHoe:
I don't see how people can come up with their own beliefs on there "way" to heaven when the bible (the word of God) clearly states the way to heaven.

The way people can see different ways of getting to Heaven is through understanding what Jesus Taught. You and the not all but, I'd say over half of Christians, haven't invested enough energy to understand what Jesus Taught.

Pliedes · 12-16-2003, 01:57 AM

Bud, you aren't seeing my arguement at all. I wasn't comparing religon to gravity at all.

I'll try a different example.
Yesterday the Colts beat the Falcons. Now, you can believe the Falcons won all you want, in fact, everyone you know can also believe the Falcons won. But the truth is that they didn't. So, we see, simply believing something doesn't make it so.

And again, you just said "in my opinon". Stop giving your bloody opinion and start rooting stuff in fact.

Pliedes · 12-16-2003, 01:57 AM

Only jews double post.

Where's my barmitzphah?

[ December 15, 2003, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Pliedes ]

Pliedes · 12-16-2003, 02:00 AM

Wow, this is getting really messy, really fast. We need to clean this up and organize it all somehow.

AcTivE · 12-16-2003, 02:00 AM

Professor:

Answer my question, please. 69/100, hell?

BigDongedHoe · 12-16-2003, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Percipere'Chan:
Pli-
Who is going to hell:

According to people in the bible Minus Jesus:
Person number 2

According to JESUS
Person number 1

You're a moron, you have close to zero knowledge of the bible. You sound so damned ludacris it's almost not even worth replying to you.

What "people" in the bible are you referring too? Sin is sin plain and simple. Somebody who has sex before marriage is a sinner just as somebody who is homosexual. If you have accepted Christ as your savior and you repent then you are forgiven for your sins. The rapists and muderers who truly accept Christ as their savior and have repented for their sins will go to heaven and the everyday joe who's a morally good person will not.

Call it unfair or unjust if you wish but you guys don't realize that our time on earth is a matter of years and our time in heaven or hell is for eternity. God is a loving God and a forgiving God. It is something that to me is still difficult to accept but the truth is that believers will be in Heaven and non-believers will not. View it as a gift either you accept it, or you do not.

Quote:

Originally posted by Percipere'Chan:
The way people can see different ways of getting to Heaven is through understanding what Jesus Taught. You and the not all but, I'd say over half of Christians, haven't invested enough energy to understand what Jesus Taught.

Again you have close to zero clue what you're talking about. "Understanding what Jesus taught" what the hell are you talking about? How can you say that Christians don't "invest enough time into understanding what Jesus taught." What religion does that then, every other religion brings in outside influences away from the bible that have nothing to do with it so are you saying that they have dove deeper into the word of God? The bible is the word of God and is the only thing that should be accepted as so.

For me to continue any theological debate about Christianity with you can you sit here and honestly tell me (without looking it up on the internet) what the Triune Godhead is? Most Christians (people who call themself that) don't even know what that is.

[ December 15, 2003, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: BigDongedHoe ]

BrassMonkees · 12-16-2003, 02:05 AM

anybody else a fan of actually having some sort of "live debate"? I know that it is almost impossible to clearly state your point on a message board such as this. It is very easy(at least for me) to misinterpret what people are saying and it can be hard for me to get my point across. I think we should meet somewhere and talk about this stuff. If you truly care what you say, then I think you would be all for attending an event such as this. I know I would love it. It always fascinates me to hear what other people think and believe about religion. Hopefully others would be interested in doing this sometime over break.

btw...

ProfNum, don't call yourself a Christian and don't tell us that you believe in the Christian God, because from everything you have said it certainly is not who you believe in. So many people claim to be Christians, when in actuallity they have no idea what they are refering to: ex, you.

Also, I think most people's view on God is very much astray. Do you honestly believe that God is the one choosing to send people to hell?

AcTivE · 12-16-2003, 02:06 AM

bdh: in all fairness 'Triune Godhead', after looking at the word again, I figured out what it was. I've never seen that word before though.

We all don't go to Grace [img]smile.gif[/img] ...or maybe I'm just an idiot?

Pliedes · 12-16-2003, 02:07 AM

Good point Brass, people make the choice.

This is really getting messy, we need to first think of a way to better organize this. Maybe start specific threads for very specific discussions. As it is, we have about 5 discussions on an extremely broad range of issues going.

BigDongedHoe · 12-16-2003, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrassMonkees:
anybody else a fan of actually having some sort of "live debate"? I know that it is almost impossible to clearly state your point on a message board such as this. It is very easy(at least for me) to misinterpret what people are saying and it can be hard for me to get my point across. I think we should meet somewhere and talk about this stuff. If you truly care what you say, then I think you would be all for attending an event such as this. I know I would love it. It always fascinates me to hear what other people think and believe about religion. Hopefully others would be interested in doing this sometime over break.

btw...

ProfNum, don't call yourself a Christian and don't tell us that you believe in the Christian God, because from everything you have said it certainly is not who you believe in. So many people claim to be Christians, when in actuallity they have no idea what they are refering to: ex, you.

Also, I think most people's view on God is very much astray. Do you honestly believe that God is the one choosing to send people to hell?

I respect your views and knowledge on the subject more than anoyone else on here because I feel you have a better understanding of Christianity than anybody else on here.

As far as the live debate would go I also would love it as well, theology is a great thing to talk about if you can get a group of people who can listen and not preach the whole time (I know that I can preach at times).

BrassMonkees · 12-16-2003, 02:07 AM

nope, I've never heard of it either

Pliedes · 12-16-2003, 02:08 AM

Triune Godhead just means Trinity.

BigDongedHoe · 12-16-2003, 02:09 AM

Active-

That's not a "Grace" belief it's a Christian belief. It is the belief that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all 3 individual persons, yet all 3 are one in essence and purpose.

I actually was talking with somebody who was Catholic one time and had another person with me that was going off about Christianity and how the person that was catholic was wrong. The person who claimed to be a Christian did not even know that God and Jesus are in fact one.

[ December 15, 2003, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: BigDongedHoe ]

AcTivE · 12-16-2003, 02:10 AM

Wow, thanks Pliedes

Percipere'Chan · 12-16-2003, 02:10 AM

Okay. Now we're getting somewhere.

Quote:

Originally posted by: AcTivE:
I wasn't familiar with the verse, so I did a little research on it, I hope you don't mind [img]smile.gif[/img] . You may have to do some reading after hearing my reply.

That’s Awesome. I love that you did. If the need arises I will as well

Now this thread truely belongs in the "I'm Right, Fuck You" category.

Again. You've missed the point

[quote]If Jesus wanted to avoid the charge of blasphemy by denying he was God , he could very easily have done so. But he did not. Rather, he showed (by quoting Psalm 82) that the claim to be God was not IN ITSELF blasphemous. His reply could be paraphrased, "It is not blasphemy to call someone 'god' if they deserve the title."[\quote]
Jesus has already made the distinction between himself as Son of the Father and the Jews about to stone him. He tells them point blank that:
1. [b]I have said, you are Gods[b].
2. If I called you God, it would not break scripture
3. And you’re telling me I’m blaspheming by making myself a God, when you are just as much as I?

It’s the same thing all throughout the Bible. Jesus is trying to show the masses how they have God in themselves. They have the ability the same as he. For they are he. He they, and God in All.

Quote:

Jesus is in me, because I asked him to come into my life. I'm not Jesus.

Jesus is in you. He’s in me. He’s in Hindus. Not because they’ve accepted him into their hearts but, because Jesus IS. Again, he’s not talking about he self as a separate entity. He’s saying that we all have this potential of which he speaks all throughout the Bible.

That my friend, is the context.

BrassMonkees · 12-16-2003, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Percipere'Chan:

Now this thread truely belongs in the "I'm Right, Fuck You" category.

That my friend, is the context.

only because of comments like that, does it belong in a different thread.

BigDongedHoe · 12-16-2003, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Percipere'Chan:

Jesus is in you. He’s in me. He’s in Hindus. Not because they’ve accepted him into their hearts but, because Jesus IS

Again WTF are you talking about. God will stand at the door of our hearts knocking waiting for us to accept him into it. There are very, very few instances where somebody will be saved by some sudden act of divine intervention. In order to be saved it takes you to ask God to come into your heart.

[ December 15, 2003, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: BigDongedHoe ]

AcTivE · 12-16-2003, 02:17 AM

1. I have said, you are Gods.
2. If I called you God, it would not break scripture
3. And you’re telling me I’m blaspheming by making myself a God, when you are just as much as I?

Your quotes are all messed up--you said the above, correct?

First of all, don't say this:

That my friend, is the context.

I can say what I said IS the context also, that goes nowhere. That's why I was trying to get ProfessorNumber to answer my question. I'm was going along with what he believed, and was going to show him there is a point that doesn't make sense anymore...but anyway

Verse 37:

Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.

I've sinned. Jesus hasn't. I'm not God, nor is anyone else, except for Jesus. He hasn't sinned, niether has God.

AcTivE · 12-16-2003, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigDongedHoe:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Percipere'Chan:

Jesus is in you. He’s in me. He’s in Hindus. Not because they’ve accepted him into their hearts but, because Jesus IS

Again WTF are you talking about. God will stand at the door of our hearts knocking waiting for us to accept him into it. There are very, very few instances where somebody will be saved by some sudden act of divine intervention. In order to be saved it takes you to ask God to come into your heart.[/quote]settle down BDH. Read his post. We have an argument going on. Everyone knows what you must do to get into heaven according to Christianity (at least in this thread anyways

)

BigDongedHoe · 12-16-2003, 02:21 AM

Active-

Understood but I don't like how he is sitting here claiming his vast knowledge of Christianity when what he is saying is so errant with scripture. I'm not all-knowing when it comes to the subject either and if I make a mistake please point it out (Brass as well) but being at Grace I have learned a good bit about it in the last 4 months.

[ December 15, 2003, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: BigDongedHoe ]

AcTivE · 12-16-2003, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigDongedHoe:
Active-

That's not a "Grace" belief it's a Christian belief. It is the belief that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all 3 individual persons, yet all 3 are one in essence and purpose.

I actually was talking with somebody who was Catholic one time and had another person with me that was going off about Christianity and how the person that was catholic was wrong. The person who claimed to be a Christian did not even know that God and Jesus are in fact one.

Yes, I know what the holy Trinity is. I'm simply saying I've never heard that particular word before. And the person whom you so highly respect hasn't either. I'm not saying it is a "Grace" belief. I'm saying you probably learned it at "Grace"

Percipere'Chan · 12-16-2003, 02:24 AM

Okay, instead of ripping Hoe up on side and down the other, I'll take a moment to defend my argument. And by the way. Brass Monkee is right. Sor far this HAS been a pretty good thread. Let's see here.

12-16-2003, 02:00 AM	#33 (permalink)
AcTivE 1 thing leads to another. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,012 Internets: -2654	Professor: Answer my question, please. 69/100, hell?
	___________________ 3:o) horned creatures...wat wat ___________________

12-16-2003, 02:05 AM	#35 (permalink)
BrassMonkees Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: winona lake Posts: 840 Internets: 10	anybody else a fan of actually having some sort of "live debate"? I know that it is almost impossible to clearly state your point on a message board such as this. It is very easy(at least for me) to misinterpret what people are saying and it can be hard for me to get my point across. I think we should meet somewhere and talk about this stuff. If you truly care what you say, then I think you would be all for attending an event such as this. I know I would love it. It always fascinates me to hear what other people think and believe about religion. Hopefully others would be interested in doing this sometime over break. btw... ProfNum, don't call yourself a Christian and don't tell us that you believe in the Christian God, because from everything you have said it certainly is not who you believe in. So many people claim to be Christians, when in actuallity they have no idea what they are refering to: ex, you. Also, I think most people's view on God is very much astray. Do you honestly believe that God is the one choosing to send people to hell?
	neither here nor there...

12-16-2003, 02:06 AM	#36 (permalink)
AcTivE 1 thing leads to another. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,012 Internets: -2654	bdh: in all fairness 'Triune Godhead', after looking at the word again, I figured out what it was. I've never seen that word before though. We all don't go to Grace [img]smile.gif[/img] ...or maybe I'm just an idiot?
	___________________ 3:o) horned creatures...wat wat ___________________

12-16-2003, 02:07 AM	#39 (permalink)
BrassMonkees Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: winona lake Posts: 840 Internets: 10	nope, I've never heard of it either
	neither here nor there...

12-16-2003, 02:09 AM	#41 (permalink)
BigDongedHoe Sex Kitten Milf fuuucck Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,704 Internets: 55974	Active- That's not a "Grace" belief it's a Christian belief. It is the belief that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all 3 individual persons, yet all 3 are one in essence and purpose. I actually was talking with somebody who was Catholic one time and had another person with me that was going off about Christianity and how the person that was catholic was wrong. The person who claimed to be a Christian did not even know that God and Jesus are in fact one. [ December 15, 2003, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: BigDongedHoe ]
	There's life and then there is Cubs baseball, it's a chore to seperate the two.

12-16-2003, 01:57 AM	#30 (permalink)
Pliedes Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 4,594 Internets: 1608	Bud, you aren't seeing my arguement at all. I wasn't comparing religon to gravity at all. I'll try a different example. Yesterday the Colts beat the Falcons. Now, you can believe the Falcons won all you want, in fact, everyone you know can also believe the Falcons won. But the truth is that they didn't. So, we see, simply believing something doesn't make it so. And again, you just said "in my opinon". Stop giving your bloody opinion and start rooting stuff in fact.

12-16-2003, 01:57 AM	#31 (permalink)
Pliedes Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 4,594 Internets: 1608	Only jews double post. Where's my barmitzphah? [ December 15, 2003, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Pliedes ]

12-16-2003, 02:00 AM	#32 (permalink)
Pliedes Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 4,594 Internets: 1608	Wow, this is getting really messy, really fast. We need to clean this up and organize it all somehow.

12-16-2003, 02:07 AM	#37 (permalink)
Pliedes Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 4,594 Internets: 1608	Good point Brass, people make the choice. This is really getting messy, we need to first think of a way to better organize this. Maybe start specific threads for very specific discussions. As it is, we have about 5 discussions on an extremely broad range of issues going.

12-16-2003, 02:08 AM	#40 (permalink)
Pliedes Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 4,594 Internets: 1608	Triune Godhead just means Trinity.

12-16-2003, 02:10 AM	#42 (permalink)
AcTivE 1 thing leads to another. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,012 Internets: -2654	Wow, thanks Pliedes
	___________________ 3:o) horned creatures...wat wat ___________________

12-16-2003, 02:17 AM	#46 (permalink)
AcTivE 1 thing leads to another. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,012 Internets: -2654	1. I have said, you are Gods. 2. If I called you God, it would not break scripture 3. And you’re telling me I’m blaspheming by making myself a God, when you are just as much as I? Your quotes are all messed up--you said the above, correct? First of all, don't say this: That my friend, is the context. I can say what I said IS the context also, that goes nowhere. That's why I was trying to get ProfessorNumber to answer my question. I'm was going along with what he believed, and was going to show him there is a point that doesn't make sense anymore...but anyway Verse 37: Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. I've sinned. Jesus hasn't. I'm not God, nor is anyone else, except for Jesus. He hasn't sinned, niether has God.
	___________________ 3:o) horned creatures...wat wat ___________________

12-16-2003, 02:21 AM	#48 (permalink)
BigDongedHoe Sex Kitten Milf fuuucck Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,704 Internets: 55974	Active- Understood but I don't like how he is sitting here claiming his vast knowledge of Christianity when what he is saying is so errant with scripture. I'm not all-knowing when it comes to the subject either and if I make a mistake please point it out (Brass as well) but being at Grace I have learned a good bit about it in the last 4 months. [ December 15, 2003, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: BigDongedHoe ]
	There's life and then there is Cubs baseball, it's a chore to seperate the two.

12-16-2003, 02:24 AM	#50 (permalink)
Percipere'Chan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: My Machine Posts: 460 Internets: -238	Okay, instead of ripping Hoe up on side and down the other, I'll take a moment to defend my argument. And by the way. Brass Monkee is right. Sor far this HAS been a pretty good thread. Let's see here.
	Dead, death, grim on a pale horse, empty, hollow, inanimate, fataled, black curtained, annihilated.