GROUND ZERO MOSQUE

[Mr. Blonde]

A lot of material going around on this. I'm interested to see how it will turn out.

This was my first experience with even hearing about it, and while it certainly got me riled up, I found out (through the following articles) a lot more about the controversy. Mr. Condell spouts a lot of demagoguery here and it's caused me to take his future videos with a big grain of salt.

YouTube

YouTube

I read a bunch right after this about how it's not actually a mosque, and how it's not actually ON ground zero. Here are some of the more recent ones.

washingtonpost.com

Ground Zero for Free Speech | The Nation

This is pretty good too.

YouTube

YouTube

Sam Harris (Author of The End of Faith and Letter to a Christian Nation) posted this recently, I thought it was really good.

Ground Zero Mosque - The Daily Beast

And here is yet another article that I think is REALLLY good. A great idea IMO. Put the motherfucker up, and see what Muslims have to say about the values of tolerance in America then. Repug actually told me about this, but he's lazy.

Big Hollywood Blog Archive Investment Opportunity: My Ground Zero Islamic Gay Bar


What do you fags think?

[DDTempest]

Its like three blocks away ... who fucking cares?

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Originally Posted by DDTempest

Its like three blocks away ... who fucking cares?

bigots

[Mr. Blonde]

don't be so quick to name names, the same being bigoted might turn out to be the bigots. See:

Big Hollywood Blog Archive Investment Opportunity: My Ground Zero Islamic Gay Bar

I really, really hope this pans out. I would love to see it. What a fucking great idea.

[ninjaface]

'Ground Zero Mosque' Park51 Not a Triumph of Radical Islam - Yahoo! News

[thekremlin]

I've read the arguments and I honestly don't understand why anyone would get worked up about this. It's not an al-qaeda clubhouse, it's a mosque where people go to pray to their God. I'm kind of shocked that this is a problem with anyone.

[Mr. Blonde]

Yeah, it's pretty fucking ridiculous. As you all know I probably dislike religion more than anybody on the board, other than possibly Repug. But this is dumb as shit.

Good spot:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...0/mosque-erade

[ninjaface]

Anyone else keep hearing the same tired talking points about this? You know, the kind that don't actually make sense after the tiniest bit of thought and/or research.

A talking point I often hear/read is that Ground Zero and the immediate surrounding area is "Hallowed Ground". So I guess the 6 strip clubs/escort services within half a mile from Ground Zero are pretty sacred then.

Another talking point is when people say it's a victory mosque because the terrorists were Muslims. The same logic would mean all white people are in the KKK.

[Mr. Blonde]

It's one of the dumbest "issues" i've ever seen. It's almost not even worth talking about. A lot of conservatives are echoing Palin's tweet: "Yeah, they CAN...but SHOULD they!?"

Fucking ridiculous.

[Der Fuhrer]

Originally Posted by ninjaface

A talking point I often hear/read is that Ground Zero and the immediate surrounding area is "Hallowed Ground". So I guess the 6 strip clubs/escort services within half a mile from Ground Zero are pretty sacred then.

Another talking point is when people say it's a victory mosque because the terrorists were Muslims. The same logic would mean all white people are in the KKK.

Are the strip clubs and escort services a sanctuary to the religion that killed 10,000 people at ground zero? No, I didn't think they were.

Oh I know, to say that all Muslims are terrorists is backward, anti-progressive, and just plain ill-informed, right? Wrong. It is not the same logic to say that, because all Muslims are terrorists, all white people are in the KKK. I would say it is a much closer parallel to the logic, all Muslims are terrorists, and all members of the KKK are racist. I am not saying that all middle eastern people are terrorists, which would be a much more accurate relationship to the one you presented above.

However I am not saying that all Muslims are terrorists. I am saying, that at its fundamental core, Islam is a violent religion, one of intolerance and murder, and it is that religion that caused the death of 10,000 innocent people at ground zero. To say otherwise would be like saying, the Nazis didn't cause the holocaust, just the fanatics did.

Did all Muslims cause 9-11, of course not. But it can not be denied that devoted followers to this religion did, and to place a mosque up the ass of where people, who were devoted to this religion, killed massive numbers of Americans is shameful. It is a disgrace to the people who lost their lives there. It is a disgrace to our country.

Allowing such a thing to occur highlights how weak, apathetic, and stupid the people of this country have become.

In my opinion, it is this pussy-minded liberalism that allowed 9-11 to happen in the first place. Appease your enemies and they will kill you. And make no mistake, Islam is an enemy of our country. Perhaps not all followers, but the fundamentalists of that religion hate our society.

[f3lix]

10,000 people? Try less than 3,000.

Also, Ron Paul made a point that this is the kind of story that gets tons of attention to divert citizens away from what congress is really doing.

[zebrazebrazebraSHAFT]

Originally Posted by Der Fuhrer

Did all Muslims cause 9-11, of course not. But it can not be denied that devoted followers to this religion did, and to place a mosque up the ass of where people, who were devoted to this religion, killed massive numbers of Americans is shameful. It is a disgrace to the people who lost their lives there. It is a disgrace to our country.

The Muslims who would be worshiping in this mosque are American, New Yorkers who live and work near Ground Zero. These people as far as you know, were affected much more than you were from the attacks.

Originally Posted by Der Fuhrer

Allowing such a thing to occur highlights how weak, apathetic, and stupid the people of this country have become.

I would argue that disallowing such a thing to occur highlights American stereotyping, religious partisanship, and shear ignorance about an attack that was invited by the complicated interventionist politics of the past 20 years.

Originally Posted by Der Fuhrer

In my opinion, it is this pussy-minded liberalism that allowed 9-11 to happen in the first place. Appease your enemies and they will kill you. And make no mistake, Islam is an enemy of our country. Perhaps not all followers, but the fundamentalists of that religion hate our society.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. The reason extremists hate our society may be rooted in Islam but its most definitely fueled by the actions of our Government and specifically our military.

Don't forget that Clinton ordered a missile strike on Afghanistan on bad intelligence in 1998, and that he initiated the bill (HR 4655) to oust Sadam Hussein and using American military, train the Iraqi military / people for democracy. Also, don't forget that in 19fucking59 the CIA recruited Sadam Hussein to help carry out the task of assassinating then Iraqi Prime Min. Gen Quasim. I know Iraq may not have anything at all to do with 911 but my point is, we have a long and tangled relationship with the Middle East.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I don't accept that 911 was the result of Islamic extremists who just happened to hate our Christian American society. There are a lot of sketchy political actions before and after 911:
War plans against Al Quaida 2 days before the attacks placed on Bush's desk.
Bush rejecting Talibans offer to give up Osama Bin Laden in exchange for evidence that he was responsible.

Food for thought.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Der Fuhrer

To say otherwise would be like saying, the Nazis didn't cause the holocaust, just the fanatics did.

A better analogy would be to say that all white people didn't cause the holocaust, just the Nazi's did. Muslims, as a whole, are not trying to take over the world by violence. It is true that in the past conquest was a main facet of how their religion developed, but even after conquest they usually (depending on the leader at the time) allowed for other religions to be had. If you think that murderous, fundamentalist extremists are even close to a large amount of the Muslim population, then this argument isn't even worth having with you. Go join the other white trash hick protesters at ground zero.

[Der Fuhrer]

Have you ever even read, and I mean even just a little bit of, the Quran? Come on man, the thing preaches hate for all non-Muslims. As a society built on Christianity (like it or not) we are the infidel. Regardless of the majority's religion, they loathe us for our embracing freedom of religion. Furthermore, as I'm sure I've stated before, their messiah is a war lord, not a man of peace. In no other religion does is state that killing a non-member of that religion is a way to the "promised land".

This argument, as are 99% of the arguments on here, is pointless. You are not going to change my beliefs about the Islamic religion or its followers, just as I am not going to change yours. You can go ahead and classify me with the, "white trash hicks" (apparently you're not above stereotyping either) who are protesting at ground zero all you want, but I don't care. But if you really want an example of "backward" logic or "anti-progressive" movements, why don't you take a look at the Islamic religion?

It is a tasteless act by the American Islamic population. I don't care enough to go out there and protest it, or really do anything other than stating my opinion on here. I think it shows the cowardice of the American people, and no sign of a backbone to stand up to the Muslim population. Maybe the Germans should erect a statue of me next to the holocaust museum. Or at least allow a place for the neo-Nazis to gather and worship, or do whatever it is they do. Perhaps that analogy is a bit of a stretch, but I believe it's on a similar level.

[Mr. Blonde]

I just finished reading A Short History of Islam, which explains the modern religion a lot better than the Qur'an, I can almost guarantee it. The same way anyone could read the Bible and PLAINLY see that Christians are genocide-loving, baby-killing desert people.

Who cares if it's "tasteless" by yours or anybody else's views? It's legal. Period.

[Ugly Bastard]

This issue reminds me of abortion: simple and easy to understand, so everyone can take a side and get good and emotionally fired up about it. But like abortion, this doesn't matter, nothing they do or say will change any outcome, and they're just distracting themselves from any real issues that actually affect them. I mean, there are people out there, maybe even our President included, who care more about some fuckin mosque in downtown Manhattan right now than they do the federal government's ballooning budget. What a joke.

[Mr. Blonde]

I think maybe it has something to do with the psychology of being able to "do something" about it or not. While all this protesting will probably do nothing in the long run, seeing as how it's legal and all. Whereas the ballooning of the federal budget, what can we do?

If you think the Republicans take the Senate this fall, do you think they'll actually take the necessary steps to reduce it? We'll need to not only cut spending, but raise taxes a lot too...and we all know how much the Repubs hate taxes.

[Der Fuhrer]

Maybe we should ask the Muslims what to do, since they're so fucking awesome?

Isn't that right Blonde? You sand-nigger loving muslim fucker!

You're a god damn terrorist Blonde. I KNEW IT!

[thekremlin]

It seems like this is one of those things where 99% of people say "Yeah who cares, let them build what they want" but the 1% are so vocal and the things they say are so ridiculous that it shocks the other 99%, so now everyone is talking about it. The thing that seriously worries me about the US is that I think the split is probably more like 80-20, not 99-1.

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

I just finished reading A Short History of Islam, which explains the modern religion a lot better than the Qur'an, I can almost guarantee it. The same way anyone could read the Bible and PLAINLY see that Christians are genocide-loving, baby-killing desert people.

Who cares if it's "tasteless" by yours or anybody else's views? It's legal. Period.

Have you read much about how European countries are being infiltrated by Muslim immigrants which are slowly and incrementally implementing Sharia law into their communities and the governments are capitulating to their "deeply held religious beliefs" and allowing it to happen?

Islam is happily infiltrating any part of the Western world and incrementally imposing its will in the tolerant societies that are too afraid of being offensive by telling them no.

[Ugly Bastard]

I'll bet it's way less one sided than 80-20. I'm on my phone atm, so I can't really dig up some CNN poll, but there's no way that just 20% of Americans think this mosque is a disgrace/shouldn't be built/etc. I'd guess it's closer to 40% if it's even a minority at all.

[f3lix]

CNN polls probably aren't too near the truth.

[ninjaface]

Related video from The Daily Show

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by DDTempest

Have you read much about how European countries are being infiltrated by Muslim immigrants which are slowly and incrementally implementing Sharia law into their communities and the governments are capitulating to their "deeply held religious beliefs" and allowing it to happen?

Islam is happily infiltrating any part of the Western world and incrementally imposing its will in the tolerant societies that are too afraid of being offensive by telling them no.

I've read into a lot of it, yes. Dent and I have posted a lot in a different thread about it as well. But right now, they're not trying to do any of those things. They're trying to build a building.

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

I've read into a lot of it, yes. Dent and I have posted a lot in a different thread about it as well. But right now, they're not trying to do any of those things. They're trying to build a building.

You clearly don't understand how creeping incrementalism works then, it goes one inch at a time ... and everything they are doing is perfectly within the law. Its only a matter of time before the law is pushed out one inch at a time.