#Occupy

[DDTempest]

I was very much opposed to the estate tax when first learning about it, but I am on the fence now. On one hand, you should be able to take care of your family ... but on the other hand, that usually just keeps a pile of money from reentering circulation (hoarding cash if you will). I tried thinking why it would bother me and the only real reason is my own greed towards whatever may be passed down to me upon my relatives' passing.

Of course there are numerous ways to pass money down proactively over the years if you generally want to "help your own"

[DJ FC]

The problem with large family estates if they don't have an estate tax is that the wealth just becomes ridiculous if managed correctly. After 5 generations you still have some stupid brats not doing anything for society.

[Ironic Mustache]

I was being serious. I understand the explanation, but it still seems like an outright jack move. "We don't want your family to keep having a bunch of money, so give some of it to us." Why? "Because we fucking said so, and you'll go to jail if you don't."

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

I was being serious. I understand the explanation, but it still seems like an outright jack move. "We don't want your family to keep having a bunch of money, so give some of it to us." Why? "Because we fucking said so, and you'll go to jail if you don't."

Well yea, that's taxation.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by DDTempest

I was very much opposed to the estate tax when first learning about it, but I am on the fence now. On one hand, you should be able to take care of your family ... but on the other hand, that usually just keeps a pile of money from reentering circulation (hoarding cash if you will). I tried thinking why it would bother me and the only real reason is my own greed towards whatever may be passed down to me upon my relatives' passing.

Of course there are numerous ways to pass money down proactively over the years if you generally want to "help your own"

Nobody hoards cash, short of stuffing it in a mattress. Even if it's in a bank, it's providing capital for that bank to work (see all the new capital requirements for banks).

[Saint DH]

The government can put whatever bullshit rationale they want to justify the estate tax. In the end, the only reason it exists is because the government wants more of your fucking money, even when you die. I would much rather see the families get ridiculously wealthy. As Beebs said, at least then the money is being invested and used efficiently. Government spending, as we all know, is less efficient. It's just another example of the government sharing in all of your upside potential, but bearing none of the downside. For example, if you die with nothing but shit tons of debt, does the government pay your mortgage? Does the government pay for your funeral costs? Fuck no they don't. The government won't even pay for your nursing home care until you've been bled dry by the nursing home. Even then, they only pay for the most basic of all care.

The estate tax was originally put into law in 1916 under President Woodrow Wilson, a democrat. I'm no historian, but I would imagine that during this period (WWI) the country saw a vast increase in government spending, and as a result, the government needed more revenue.

[Mr. Blonde]

I find myself becoming more and more interested in less government as time passes, but I just can't reconcile some of the things behind Libertarian ideals.

For example..I think most people now, after the fact, think TARP/the bailout was a bad idea. Alternate reality: what would life be like in America had it not happened? (serious question, not baiting)

[Saint DH]

There were tons of people who were against the bailout. People call Obama a communist because of the bailouts. He was in control of GM for awhile for christ's sake.

I'm no expert, but here's my quick thoughts. Banks would have gone out of business. New banks and smaller banks would have taken their place. Banks that were running inefficiently and making bad decisions would have died off instead of being artificially preserved. Detroit would still be fucked. GM would have gone bankrupt. It probably would have been chopped up and sold off into different pieces. People would have lost their jobs, but eventually found new work as the automobile industry slowly healed. What you have now is a situation much like Amtrak. An institution that will stay in business forever but will never, ever turn a profit.

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

at least then the money is being invested and used efficiently.

Money is only being used efficiently if it is flowing through commercial entities ... money is not being efficiently used until it leaves a bank. Otherwise its just a giant stack of I.O.U.s

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

There were tons of people who were against the bailout. People call Obama a communist because of the bailouts. He was in control of GM for awhile for christ's sake.

I didn't say there weren't. I was implying that many of those who DID support it, don't now.

[Ironic Mustache]

Originally Posted by Beebs

Well yea, that's taxation.

If my dad already paid taxes on money, forcing me to pay additional taxes on the same money is double taxation.

[DJ FC]

I was against the bailouts then and I wish they had never happened. I'd be perfectly happy to put myself out of a job in finance forever if it meant that once and for all the government would stop meddling with shit and giving people guarantees. Let the fuckers fail. Let the world go to hell in the short term. The financial system that would arise from the short term chaos would correctly price risk rather than take any risk available because Uncle Sam is always there to bail you out.

[Mr. Blonde]

FC, what would be the number one book you would recommend to understand economics/finance better?

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

If my dad already paid taxes on money, forcing me to pay additional taxes on the same money is double taxation.

Agree, but a lot of, possibly all money, is taxed at least twice.

Owner of part of a company? Make a profit? Tax. Want that profit? That's capital gains, that's more tax. Buy something? Sales tax, at least, more for many items. Sell that something for a profit? Tax. Make money? Income tax. Give money (over a certain level, 20k maybe?) to somebody? Tax.

At least in the US you tend to notice it (although usually ignore it most of the time), in the UK I noticed that the Value Added Tax is just included in the price, which is both convenient and a way of hiding just how badly you are getting fucked.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

FC, what would be the number one book you would recommend to understand economics/finance better?

[Ironic Mustache]

Originally Posted by Beebs

Agree, but a lot of, possibly all money, is taxed at least twice.

Yeah and it's fucked.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

Yeah and it's fucked.

Well, yea.

[Ugly Bastard]

Economics in One Lesson.

Blonde, I think I've recommended this to you before?

[Mr. Blonde]

You did. I forgot about it, till just now. It's actually in a pile of books at my sister's place.

Now I feel dumb.

[DJ FC]

http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Eco.../dp/0324224729

[DDTempest]

ANARCHY | Frank Miller Ink

ANARCHY
posted 11.7.2011

Everybody’s been too damn polite about this nonsense:

The “Occupy” movement, whether displaying itself on Wall Street or in the streets of Oakland (which has, with unspeakable cowardice, embraced it) is anything but an exercise of our blessed First Amendment. “Occupy” is nothing but a pack of louts, thieves, and rapists, an unruly mob, fed by Woodstock-era nostalgia and putrid false righteousness. These clowns can do nothing but harm America.

“Occupy” is nothing short of a clumsy, poorly-expressed attempt at anarchy, to the extent that the “movement” – HAH! Some “movement”, except if the word “bowel” is attached - is anything more than an ugly fashion statement by a bunch of iPhone, iPad wielding spoiled brats who should stop getting in the way of working people and find jobs for themselves.

This is no popular uprising. This is garbage. And goodness knows they’re spewing their garbage – both politically and physically – every which way they can find.

Wake up, pond scum. America is at war against a ruthless enemy.

Maybe, between bouts of self-pity and all the other tasty tidbits of narcissism you’ve been served up in your sheltered, comfy little worlds, you’ve heard terms like al-Qaeda and Islamicism.

And this enemy of mine — not of yours, apparently - must be getting a dark chuckle, if not an outright horselaugh - out of your vain, childish, self-destructive spectacle.

In the name of decency, go home to your parents, you losers. Go back to your mommas’ basements and play with your Lords Of Warcraft.

Or better yet, enlist for the real thing. Maybe our military could whip some of you into shape.


They might not let you babies keep your iPhones, though. Try to soldier on.
Schmucks.
FM

I love some Frank Miller work ... he essentially created modern Batman mythologies and 300 and Sin City, but this diatribe is incredibly weak. He uses anti-Islamicism as a crutch for what would be an easily made point: occupy is not a real movement.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by ninjaface

I have a Chase account and have never incurred a fee. The reason for that is the fact that I payed attention to possible fees when I opened the account. Which is what you are supposed to do.

Blonde, all you have to do is say you forgot about the direct deposit requirement.

I know I'd forgive you. Perhaps others would, too.

Originally Posted by Mr. Mistoffelees

I've been a lifetime member of Chase through like 3 name changes and I've never been charged a fee. You have no one to blame but yourself.

Banks Quietly Ramping Up Costs to Consumers

Chase raised the fee on its standard checking account to $12 a month in February; many of those customers were previously charged nothing at all.

Hate to say I told you so...but I never incurred a fee before February of this year, despite not having direct Deposit the prior 1.5 years I was in Korea. Which I believe...makes both of you wrong.

[Ironic Mustache]

Originally Posted by DDTempest

ANARCHY | Frank Miller Ink



I love some Frank Miller work ... he essentially created modern Batman mythologies and 300 and Sin City, but this diatribe is incredibly weak. He uses anti-Islamicism as a crutch for what would be an easily made point: occupy is not a real movement.

To be honest, as much as I don't care for the occupiers, I agree that this was garbage. Anti-Islam? Really? Are we still doing that?

[Beebs]

So I watched the live streams of the eviction, it was all pretty interesting. Both sides were fairly well behaved towards each other, although the media blackout was sketchy at best; I can see a bit of validity in it in terms of a tactical operation, but not sure if it was worth disregarding rights for a relatively small tactical advantage.

One thing that constantly bothered me was protesters suddenly being very concerned with personal property rights, at a mostly anti-capitalism protest.

When shit gets real, the tone suddenly changes from "Give up more of your shit" to "They took my backpack." Obviously not everyone there is a full blown communist, although some are, but it shows typical tactics of propaganda; by making the "1%" the others, the outsiders, they become less human, their rights become less meaningful, but when it is suddenly your rights becoming less important, hopefully you realize the error of your beliefs. Sadly I don't think many will realize the irony of it.

[Repugnant Abomination]

It's not an anti capitalist movement, dumb dumb.